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TB: Hi, I’m Thursday Bram and I’m here today with Chris Guillebeau. Chris, could you tell us a little about yourself?

CG: Sure, thanks for having me. So, I’m Chris, as you said. And I publish the blog Art of Non-Conformity. I’m a full-time writer and I support myself with a backend business called Unconventional Guides, and in that business, I sell information products about self-employment, and travel, and related topics.

And then I also travel quite a bit myself. I’m trying to visit every country in the world, so I go to about 20 countries a year and I operate the business and do the writing from wherever I am.

TB: So how did you get your business set-up the way that it is? How did you put everything together to allow you to travel as much as you do?

CG: This business actually didn’t begin very strategically, it actually happened quite organically. So I’ve been working for myself for about 10 years, most of my adult life, and I was overseas for 4 of those years as an aide worker in Africa and then I moved back to the States and started the non-conformity blog. And before that I had done a lot of little business things, which we can talk about, but this business grew out of all the questions I was receiving.

I started this blog and I was talking about how I did all this travel stuff and I noticed that people are asking a lot of the same questions over and over. For example, they were asking questions about how you book discount airfare, and how much does it cost, and how do you get around-the-world plane tickets, and use frequent flyer miles, and that kind of stuff.

And so I just decided: Let me try something out and see how people respond. I created my first information product, which was just in an ebook, in the summer of 2008 and I put that out there to see how people would respond. I said that all of the content on my blog is going to continue to be free, of course, and I don’t want to have third-party advertising on my blog, but I also have this ebook and if you’re really interested in travel, maybe you can pick this up as well.

So I started that and people responded really well and a couple months later, I did another guide, got a little more strategic about it, and that guide was called, The Unconventional Guide to Working For Yourself. Over the next 12-18 months, I started thinking about building the business out a bit more strategically and creating a range of products, so that’s how it came about. It wasn’t really strategic, it wasn’t quite by accident, it just was the natural extension of the blog that I was building.

TB: You mentioned a couple of businesses that came first. Could you maybe talk about them and your background, education, and all of that?

CG: My educational background was in sociology, which was great. It was fun and definitely helped me a lot, but it wasn’t that conducive to employment. And, you know, to get a job as a sociologist you have to have a PhD basically, but I had an undergraduate degree and I had about half of a master’s degree, which doesn’t go very far.

So when I was 20, I was working at FedEx, carrying boxes around. It wasn’t that great of a job. In the morning, I would get up and go to class, so I was really tired. This was 10 years ago. I started a small eBay business, I just started selling some things around my house because I needed some money and I realized I could make about $20-$25 an hour doing that, which was great, because at FedEx I was making $8 an hour.

So, from there I learned how to do a lot of different things. I imported coffee for a while. I sold coffee to distributors, wholesalers. I had that business for about a year. From there, I started helping other people build small businesses on eBay. Again, this was a long time ago when it was much easier to do that. Then I learned how to do web design, did some business strategy consulting. I did some work with Google Adsense and Adwords for a few years.

I wasn’t really building a huge business or anything. My main motivation was: How can I support myself so I don’t have to have a regular job? And then when we moved overseas, my motivation was: How can I support my wife and myself so we can do the volunteer work that we need to do? I’m not trying to get rich, but definitely trying to create some kind of independence. So that’s how all that came about.

TB: You said something interesting, that you’ve worked with eBay sellers to help them set up their businesses in the past. One of the things I’ve noticed about a lot of your products is that they focus on helping people put together the business that can support them, or the resources they need to put together that business. Is there a particular reason you’re interested in that topic?

CG: Well, I think it’s something that a lot of people are interested in. When you can focus on the bigger picture issues, like creating independence, creating freedom, and then relate those to the practical issues of how do you start a small business, how can you create some kind of side income, and then eventually scale that to a full-time income.

That’s what I know how to do, that’s what I’ve done for 10 years, and so I always think it’s important when you’re developing a new business to really look at what you’re good at and what you’re passionate at, and then what other people are also interested in and also passionate about and also, willing to spend money on. So the convergence between those things, self-employment and starting a business, and being location independent or travel the world – it’s something that resonates with a lot of people.

TB: I’d like to get down to some of the specifics of how you operate your business now. How do you put together one of your products? How do you choose a topic? Can you walk us through that process?

CG: Yes, in the beginning it was basically just response to questions. So for a travel product, it’s kind of like people need to do a variety of things to travel the world, or maybe they just need to go home once a year or something. How can we a create a solution that allows them to do that that saves them money? Same thing with the Unconventional Guide to Working for Yourself. It was like: Here’s everything I’ve learned in 10 years of self-employment, here’s basically whatever I can think of in that bucket that I can give.

Now over the next year, I got a little bit more strategic. I started doing some customer surveys where I would present different ideas to my existing customer base or maybe even my blog readership and say: “Here’s where I’m thinking of going, what do you think about this? Here are 5 different ideas, can you rank these ideas?” So that was very helpful figuring out what I’m about and what people are interested in buying.

And I think probably now, at this point, I have the classic entrepreneur problem, which is more ideas than time. There’s all kinds of things that I would love to do and not enough time to do them in everything else that’s happening. So now I mostly just do what I’m motivated to do. I try not to do anything that I’m not motivated to do.

When I create a product I think: “First of all, what is the offer going to be? Because it’s really important to think about the offer right from the beginning. So the offer is the deliverables, what’s going to be included? Is it an ebook? Is it an ebook, plus some kind of multi-media which works really well and creates a value add? How will the product be delivered? What are the main benefits of the product?” Always think about that stuff in the beginning.

Then I get a little more serious about crafting the product and if I’m working with a partner then we decide who’s doing what. If it’s a writing project, then I’ll try to set aside some time to do all the writing, create the audio files, whatever I need to do. Then I build it out over the course of 1-3 months or so.

Then as I’m getting closer to the end, I might look for some other input from people. I might look to create some bonuses, I might look to think a bit more carefully how I’m going to pitch it and what kind of messaging I want to use to get the best response. One of the things that has been really good for me is I try not to have a hard-sell approach. I try to have a very soft-sell approach and a filtering process where I try to be very clear about who is going to be helped through the guide and the product and who is not going to be helped.

And I try to gently steer away anyone who might not be a good fit. That really helps people build up trust. It helps build relationships over the long term. It helps people see: “Okay, maybe this product isn’t the best fit for me, but maybe something else is.” So, that’s one of the things that has helped me. That’s a general overview.

TB: One of the things that really intrigued me about your last couple of launches for Empire Building Kit was that I saw them on a lot of sites that didn’t seem or don’t really do a lot of affiliate marketing reviews or anything like that. Would you talk about how you built that network with a lot of sites that are popular, but aren’t as necessarily as into building the business or that same niche?

CG: I think part of it is just the natural effect of building relationships over time and building influence over time to where I have a pretty good track record now. If I do something, then people are going to pay attention to it. If I offer a way to participate, then people are going to be excited about it. For the first year or so I had an affiliate program, but I really didn’t do anything with it. It was very hands-off. It was like: “Here, you can go and sign up for the affiliate program and you basically have to figure it out yourself.” Which is fine because it’s still there.

But, for this time, with the Empire Building Kit, as you mentioned, I wanted to get a little bit better at that and so I have an affiliate manager now who works with me and he’s actually been contacting everyone who’s signed up for the affiliate program to let them know what’s happening, what the launch is going to be, and how they can participate, and what they need to do.

So that is a little bit more of a hands-on process of individual relationships and trying to show people how they can endorse the product if they so choose and how they can benefit from it. I think it also helps that I’m going to higher priced products now, although it’s still mid-range, but it’s easier to build a profitable affiliate program if the affiliates are really excited about it, if they can get paid more than they would for like a $20 ebook or something.

TB: The other thing about your product launches is you’ve launched a product on a train and you’ve launched a product just before you left for Africa. How do you put together that sort of launch?

CG: It’s funny you mention that. Until recently, I actually tried really hard not to be traveling during a product launch because so many things are happening and also there is the potential for so many things to go wrong that I’ve always wanted to be at home during that time.

But, I also have to balance that with a need to tell a good story. I think storytelling is very, very important in copywriting, and presenting an offer. And also considering the fact that since I’m launching my products from a blog, probably 95% of the blog readers are interested in the product, or they’re not interested in buying something. And that’s fine with me, I don’t want to push them away.

I have to consider if I’m launching a product: How can I keep the attention of everybody else, you know, without kind of harrangig them all the time with sales announcements?

The Empire Kit thing just kept building and building, and it was going to be a really big product, so I asked: “How can I make it fun?” I heard about this Empire Builder Train that goes between Chicago and Portland, and I realized that would also be the day of my birthday, and all these things kept happening, so finally I said: “Well, let’s craft an interesting story and let’s make it fun.” As you said, let’s launch the product from the train. I did that with a friend of mine, another blogger, J.D. Roth.

So it really got people interested and I got fan mail from people who didn’t even want the product, who said: “I don’t even want to buy this, but I’m really enjoying the story.” I had just been in West Africa the week before, then in Europe, then I came to the States, went to Pittsburgh to give a talk, and then went to Chicago to get on the train, so people really liked the story. So I have to figure out the best way to do that because I can’t always launch a product from a train, of course. But it was a lot of fun.

TB: It was definitely something that I watched very closely. It was a great story.

CG: Thanks.

TB: Did you run into any problems? Any logistical concerns when you actually did that?

CG: I was really worried because you just never know, and this was my biggest product launch ever, and I’m going to be on a train, which obviously doesn’t have any Internet, so I tried to compensate as best as I could. I have a MiFi that I travel with and I got a second MiFi as a backup and had multiple laptops and cellphones.

That was the weekend the iPad came out, so J.D. Roth, the guy I was traveling with had an iPad, so we joked that we had our own little Apple store on there on the Amtrack train, which is kind of funny because Amtrack is pretty low-tech. So, actually it worked out pretty well. I would say that we had a couple of issues. We had some dead spots in a few places. But, overall, it worked out as well as I could have expected and as well as I could have hoped. So, overall I was really happy.

I’m trying to think if there had been any other problems. I run into little issues all the time, especially now with the business getting bigger and the blog readership going up, I definitely feel the imperative to always be online and I have to balance that with the travel I want to do and the time it takes to travel, and the fatigue. I also want to make sure that I have a good travel experience.

I mean, I try not to complain about these things because if I complain, I realize that I have a great life. It’s just so much fun. I’m thrilled that I’m able to do this. So I just try to take the problems as they come and work with them the best I can.

TB: Are there any tools that you’ve found useful to work with when you’re out on the road?

CG: Well, I pretty much do everything, my entire business and writing career, and whatever else it is, is managed entirely on my MacBook, just the one laptop. So, I’m moving towards more online services like a lot of people, just because that makes it easier.

I’m trying to think of some specific things that I use. I’m really pretty low-tech. Like I said, in the States, I like my MiFi so that I can have a hotspot anywhere, that is fun. It only works in the states for now, but I think they’re getting a global version at some point. Otherwise, I just try to keep it pretty simple and don’t use a lot of tools or high tech stuff.

TB: I’ve seen that you do a lot of videos and a lot of hosts from airports or while you’re in an airplane, or otherwise traveling. How do you make sure that you stay productive in all those different places while it’s probably pretty hard to maintain a routine across several kinds of… ?

CG: Yes, it is. And that work routine is good because I don’t have the same kind of routine that a lot of freelancers, or a lot of self-employed people have, where they like set aside certain hours to work on certain projects or certain activities, you know from 8am to 11am, or whatever it is.

I think that is helpful, it’s just not really possible for me with all of the travel and different timezones. So instead of a specific routine based on hours, I just try to instill the really strong habit or the discipline to continually create and continually work. Not in a workaholic way, but in a way that’s rewarding and meaningful.

So I just try to make sure I’m always writing, make sure I’m always creating something, whether it’s a product, or a blog post, or a book I’m writing. I’ve just found as a creative, and I think a lot of creatives can relate to this, if I don’t create for awhile, I’m going to start feeling bad. It’s kind of like exercise. Like once you get into a good exercise routine, then it kind feels bad to break that for more than a day or two.

I like what Seth Godin says. His definition of creativity is: “Creativity is an instinct to produce.” And I know that not everyone likes that statement, and people feel they have some different definitions and that’s fine, but I relate to that one. And I like that one and I just feel like every day, no matter where I am, I have to. I set a standard for myself. I try to write at least 500 words a day, usually about 1,000 words a day.

I try to clear most of my email. I do get behind. I try to clear most of my email every day, try to do my blog comments, do my Twitter stuff, my Facebook stuff, whatever.

So I guess it helps because I really like what I do. If I didn’t like what I did, it might be a lot harder. But for the most part, I really enjoy it.

TB: I know that you have a book coming out this fall and a book tour to go with it. Would you tell us a little about the book and maybe a little bit on how working on your book was different than working on your Unconventional Guides?

CG: Working on the book was much different. I had done a lot of writing before, but I had never written a full-length book. And I definitely did realize that it is a different animal, so I really respect authors that write books regularly. I think that I like the shorter format better, maybe the medium format, although I do plan on writing more books. So, that was fun.

I wrote that book last year and it’s coming out this September 7. It’s called The Art of Non-Conformity. And it’s a longer version of some of the manifestos I’ve written about how to do what you want, and also how to change the world and make the world a better place for others. So, I try to blend a high-level look at that with a practical look at how does that work, what does that look like.

When it comes out in September, I’m going to begin an Unconventional Book Tour, where I go to visit all 50 states and then in Janauary 2011, all 10 provinces in Canada, as well. I call it an Unconventional Book Tour because I want it to be not boring. I want it to actually be interactive and collectively organized through Twitter and Facebook.

And so, right now we’re recording this interview in June, so I’m just trying to figure out what it’s going to look like. It terrifies me actually because I’m a shy, introverted person and getting ready to do 63 meet-ups in a row, in all kinds of different cities, but I think that it’s going to be really fun also. I think that it’s going to be good. So, that’s my next project.

TB: How are you planning to handle your business while you’re focusing on the book?

CG: Well, a lot of the business, I don’t really use that word “passive” because I think that word is overused. There’s still things you have to do to run any business for the most part. But, having said that, a lot of the business does run itself. When I’m not actively developing a new product, or new projects, then it doesn’t take a great deal of time. I’ve scheduled it to where last fall I started thinking about what 2010 was going to look like.

I decided for the first half of the year, it was going to be a really intensive business development schedule. I’ve done that with the new products and I have one more coming out here. But, the second half of the year is going to focus mostly on this book and the book tour and so I’m actually not launching any other products for the rest of 2010, so basically the whole focus is the book and meeting the readers and gearing up for some other things in 2011. I guess I’m backing off a little bit on the business development for the rest of the year so I can focus on that.

TB: I only have one more question and that’s if you had to give a piece of advice to somebody who wanted to become an entrepreneur, who’s just starting out, what would you tell them a good starting point was?

CG: I would go back to that point we talked about: convergence. I would say it’s great to build a business around your passion, but that’s also a topic that’s oversimplified sometimes. I think when we talk about passion and passion in business, I always have mixed feelings because on the one hand I’m really excited about it because my business is oriented around my passion, and I know lots and lots of businesses that are very successful with that.

But at the same time, it can’t just be any passion. It has to be a passion that other people are also excited about and willing to spend money on.

TB: Can you tell our listeners where they can find you?

CG: Sure, I’m Chris Guillebeau at chrisguillebeau.com, and on Twitter.

TB: Thanks for talking with us today.

CG: Thanks, Thursday, I appreciate it.

Recently the Netsetter had the opportunity to conduct an interview with Jun Loayza, of Untemplater and Viralogy. Check below the jump for both audio and text versions of Thursday Bram‘s interview with Jun.

Download the interview.

TB: So I’m here with Jun Loayza and you are the founder of Untemplater, you work with Viralogy and a couple other sites. Would you mind giving us a run-down of what kind of projects you’ve been working on as an entrepreneur and what your positions are with those different companies?

JL: Sure. Number 1, I’m the co-founder of Viralogy.com where we’re building dynamic insights and it is a recommendation engine that better helps e-commerce sites better convert their visitors. I’m also the president of SocialMediaMarketing.com, where we help big brands and corporations utilize social media to drive traffic, build a brand, and accomplish any measurements of success that they want. I’m also the co-founder of Untemplater, where we write about how to break the Template lifestyle and help other people in the mid-late twenties and I guess, even 30s. Actually, it’s not age-specific, so I shouldn’t even say that. Really, to find a way to break out of whatever their cubicle may be. May not even be a cubicle, but travel more, work for yourself, etc.

TB: So those businesses kind of have a little bit of overlap, but they’re also all a little bit different. Have you found that they fit together very well for you? How did you come to work on such different projects?

JL: Well, that’s actually a really long story. I’ve been with my team about Viralogy for about 3 years, since the early days of my undergrad. And the team and I had built 2 sites previous and we’re on our 3rd site now, which is Virology and with Amikacin sites, and we recently received a round of funding, so this seems that it has the best chance of succeeding. As far as an overlap, there isn’t much of an overlap, each team has different team members, none of the work really overlaps, so I keep everything pretty separate.

I arrived at SocialMediaMarketing.com because of the work I was doing online, the CEO of SEOP recruited me to start the company for him. And Untemplater was started because a really good group of us, bloggers online got together and thought, “hey, maybe we can do something really cool if we combine powers,” kind of like, what’s that guy?-Captain Planet. Yeah. I’ve always wanted to be the guy with fire, with red hair, I forget his name, I think it was Wheeler that was my favorite one growing up. So we came together, hopefully Untemplater is the Captain Planet when we join forces.

TB: Wonderful. So, for an entrepreneur, you might be considered a little bit young. Did you start your businesses right out of college or did you start them during college?

JL: Yeah. We started at our last year of UCLA and I was 21 at the time. I am 24 now. I was used to being the youngest in the room for a very long time, now it seems that most people are my age. I’ve found a few younger entrepreneurs. I’ve talked to a lot of investors and they have invested in 23 year old entrepreneurs with their first start-up. It just depends on the intelligence of the team, the ideas of course secondary, but I think the team is the most important thing. So, as far as being a young entrepreneur in the internet space, I would think it is an advantage, especially if you’re entering the social realm. Also because, lifestyle wise, we don’t have a family to support or mortgage to pay, which means we have less to lose, so we can be more risky, so I think being a young entrepreneur is a really big advantage actually.

TB: Is there any advice that you would offer to another young entrepreneur still in college or about the age of 21 or so?

JL: Yeah. Funny thing is after college I joined the corporate world. And I was there for about 3 months before I decided to leave and do my start-up full-time. I think it was a little brash and impusive and if I could do it again, I wouldn’t have done it so quickly. I would have stayed a little longer in the corporate world, paid off my student loans, would have worked on my start-up, part-time, nights and weekends, until it’s at a point where we feel it’s generating revenue, has some kind of traction, maybe it’s been funded, so I leave the corporate world fully and enter a start-up that is also able to pay me because I was scrappy for like 2 years straight, eating ramen noodles. I actually had to move back home because we ran out of money.

So, it’s not very glamourous, especially as a young entrepreur because you have no idea what you’re doing and you’re really learning through trial and error. I would recommend finding entreprenuers-successful entrepreneurs-in your local city and taking them out for lunch or coffee and absorb their wisdom, you know, ask them as many questions as possible. Because they’re just going to be able to teach you things that I had to learn through trial and error. And yeah, I think that’s pretty much it. I mean, even though you’re young and hae nothing really to lose, you still have to pay off those student loans, you still have to pay rent and survive.

I think the corporate world does teach a lot of good skill sets, I think many of us, I don’t want to say Gen-Y blogosphere, but I know a lot of people online are talking about, you know, “Corporate world sucks!,” but it does offer a skill set that the entrepreneurial world does not. I also think that building a start-up that hopefully will also IPO or be acquired is very different, from building a blog that is going to generate you income, or building a muse-type career, kind of like what Tim Ferris talks about, something that’s automated and will bring you a little bit of income every month-very different from building an internet start-up in Silicon Valley.

TB: You mentioned that you have just received a round of funding. Did you have any problems convincing the various people in funding to take you seriously because of your age or are they becoming more comfortable with younger entrepreneurs?
JL: No, I mean in Silicon Valley, Boulder, Austin, and in New York, people are used to young entrepreneurs so you’re age shouldn’t be anything. It should not even be brought up. It won’t be a problem at all. As far as our funding, it was a seed round of funding from a private investor, which was enough to bring us here to Silicon Valley and move here. We are now actively searching for a Series-A round from Angel investors.

How the process works really is you pitch an investor, you determine whether you need an angle or venture capital based on the amount of funds that you need. We only need about 500,000 to a 1,000,000, so that means either an Angel or a very early stage VC investor is going to suit us fine. The process can take months, it can be very grueling because it’s worse than an interview because you’re asking for someone’s money.

Actually, you’re asking for someone’s money in an interview for a career. It’s kind of risky. If you don’t have previous successes then you have to show on your presentation exactly how you’re minimizing risk. It is the investor’s job to minimize risk as much as possible and invest money into a company he or she feels is going to return 5-10 times what was invested in, hopefully, 5 years.

TB: So Untemplater is a very different kind of business. I believe you are not looking for investors with that, correct?

JL: Correct. It is a completely different kind of business. A blog looking to teach and educate and also generate revenue through advertising, affiliates, and perhaps some sponsors.

TB: Do you have a preference for which sort of structure you like better?

JL: You mean in terms of company wise?

TB: Mhmm. Yes.

JL: Yeah, I think I really love the, I don’t know if it’s the traditional start-up atmosphere, but being here in Silicon Valley is great and I love the potential of having a successful exit of 30 million or more. I have actually taken a break from social media. I mean, if you look at my blog, I haven’t blogged in over a month and I’m not really actively on Twitter anymore.  Because I think, for the beginning two years, I was very actively involved in social media and trying to get my name out there as a young entrepreneur, but ultimately is that going to help you as an entrepreneur to get business in the product that you’re developing? It highly depends and in the product we have right now, the answer is no. Which means a lot of my time right now is spent calling e-commerce sites, figuring out ways to market directly to them. And you know what? They’re not really on Twitter or Facebook so being on my blog, blogging at JunLoayza.com is not going to really return or is going to be something that is great for my start-up in order to pick up investors or get another client. So it’s very different and I really do enjoy the, I don’t know if I should call it the traditional start-up atmosphere, but I love building a company more than, let’s say, just blogging.  I would never really blog for money. That’s more like a hobby.

TB: So you work with some really cool people on your different teams for your different companies. How do you connect with these people?

JL: You mean how is our relationship right now or how did I find them?

TB: How did you find them? And if you want to, talk about you maintain relationships. I know a lot of the bloggers on Untemplater are all over the world.

JL: Yeah, we’re all over the place, so with Untemplater, Cody’s in Thailand, I believe. He travels a lot. I think he’s in Thailand right now. I met him, so all of us met two and a half years ago because we started our blogs all about the same time. We also met through Brazen Careerist, and over the course of two and a half years, I’ve just maintained a great relationship with Cody, Monica, Adam Baker-I think I’ve known him for a year and a half, Carlos-same thing, a year and a half, Andrew Norcross, he’s all over the place, on Twitter, if you say anything about WordPress, he’ll be on it.

All really great, smart people and we got together because I wrote a blog post about Gen-Y teaming up and if we could all come together to do something great, they commented on the blog post and I was like “hey, let’s do something cool together,” so we decided to do it. Like anything, when you start a business with your friends it can be tough, and you get into fights, and it’s grueling, but I think overall it’s been a really good experience.

As far as Viralogy, Steve, Yuki, and I all went to UCLA and we all met there, so we’ve actually been building a couple sites already together, and this one, Viralogy, looks like–hopefully–it’s going to be the one that is successful. As far as relationships both of them really, really good friends, if not my best friends in real life, and I think it takes a mutual respect in order to disagree with each other, like having that ability to disagree and kind of battle it out because in any start-up, you don’t want to be the leader and kind of dictate how things go. You want each person to, like if you give an idea, each person has to try to destroy it. And if it survives the destruction, it should be a good idea. We try to call it, man Yuki had such a good name for it, something like the Awesome Trash Model, the idea is either awesome or it’s trash because if it’s mediocre, we’re just not going to do it.

TB: Do you find it difficult to keep all of your projects in balance and is it even harder to keep your life in balance with all that work or do you have a way of keep work-life balance?

JL: Yeah, I think it is pretty hard. I have a girlfriend and for example, just this morning, I was incredibly frustrated because she lives in Southern California and I moved up here to Northern California. She’s coming in May. And I was just invited to speak at a speaker event in Wisconsin in May and it just so happens that it’s going to be in the same weekend that she’s coming over. So I just had to deal with all the scheduling and re-scheduling and trying to move things around today, which is really frustrating to me, but that’s just like one of the things that got to me today. As far as keeping myself in order, I do a few things. I have 8 x 11 paper, I fold it over twice, so I have a little sheet where I write down what I’m supposed to do for the day. Or actually, I write down what I’m supposed to do tomorrow the night before. And I make sure I don’t move on or do anything until I finish that. So, for example, I have to finish an agreement for a client. I have to send out 2 proposals and I have to make 5 phone calls. So I don’t let myself go on Facebook or Twitter until I finish, so that’s how I keep myself organized. Also we use PBWorks, which is kind of like a project management tool that keeps me organized.

TB: Do you use PBWorks in all of your businesses or is that something that you chose personally?

JL: I use it for all 3.

TB: Wonderful. So, where do you see yourself going with these businesses?

JL: With Viralogy, hopefully it sells for about 30 million+ in about 3-5 years. With Untemplater, same thing. We’re looking to build it to a certain point where it will hopefully sell as well. I’d have to talk to the other founders about their long term vision. But it is something that I do want to eventually sell as well. And, if we hit that million mark, that would be awesome, but it’s a bit harder for blogs, I believe. And I think that’s my ultimate vision. My goal is not necessarily to build something into the next Facebook, but I do want to have a successful exit and then take like a vacation from the world, for like 6 months and just disappear, and then come back and do another startup. And then recycle like that a couple times and then maybe come back as an investor and start funding other start-ups.

TB: What do you think are the signs of a good start-up?

JL: Signs of a good start-up? Well, if you ask an investor, they’re just going to say that the team is the most important aspect. The team is, what they say is, an A-team can pivot. They can take a B idea and effectively make it like an A-idea by pivoting it to the right position, based on the market or what the competition is doing, or what the industry trends are. So, by far, the most important thing in any start-up is going to be the team and not necessarily the idea, but their ability to take the idea and pivot it in a way to make it successful.

TB: Is there any advice you’d give to an entrepreneur who is just starting out, especially about building a great team?

JL: How to build a great team, man. I think I got lucky in particular. I shouldn’t say lucky. I think I heard a great quote once: “Luck is preparation and opportunity meeting at just the right moment.” So as far as preparing yourself, be intelligent, I don’t know how to, like there’s so many intelligent people online like, off the top of my head, Neil Patel, really smart, Steve Spalding from  ”How to Split an Atom,” like if you talk to the guy, you can tell this guy is a smart person. I don’t know, maybe they read a lot, maybe it’s just a personality trait, but intelligent people attract high-quality people because people want to work with them.

Two, especially when you’re young, I would advise going to every single investor/entrepreneur event in your local area. Pretty soon, you’ll find out that all the advice is the same and you’re meeting all the same people, but until you hit that point it’s really good for you to learn from others and to meet people that are trying to be entrepreneurs as well because sooner or later you’re going to find someone who has a skill set that compliments you.

So, if you’re like me, a marketing type of guy, then you want to find somebody who is technically savvy because I can’t code worth crap. And you’re going to need to find some guy who is more of a leader, manages well, because I can be all over the place at the same time and when something goes wrong I can become very depressed. So, for example, with Yuki, I call him the anchor, because he’s very emotionally stable. I’m practically losing my mind and he’s very emotionally secure and has his mind on the company. So, very important is not just finding like-minded people, but finding people who will bring a complimentary skill set to the start-up, because if you have three marketers, you’re not going to go anywhere.

TB: Ok, well, that’s all the questions I have. Is there anything else that you would like to add?

JL: Well, I think this was pretty neat. If anybody in particular has any questions that they would like to ask me, you can reach me anytime at @junloayza on Twitter and also email me at me@junloayza.com

TB: Alright. Thank you very much.

JL: Alright, thanks so much Thursday.

Netsetter:
Every time I check in on the LessEverything site I see your stable of services and apps growing, when you and Steve started out, did you think that it was going to get this big? Did you plan the growth or did it just kind of happen?

Allan Branch:
I don’t consider our company “big.” As we go along we become unsatisfied with the tools we were using we decided to write some that work the way we work. Being small let’s us focus on today and what our immediate needs are. I think you’ll see more companies like ours popping up, doing small elegant pieces of web based software that serves a small market and makes their users happy.

Netsetter:
There are a fair few tools aimed at your target market around online, how did you go about getting LessAccounting noticed in such a crowded market?

Allan Branch:
There are tons of invoicing app out there. Most don’t do more than just invoicing which doesn’t satisfy the accounting needs of businesses that make money. We’re an accounting app, we make accounting suck less. We’re less horrible than most full accounting apps and people tend to talk about it.

LessEverything's Flagship Product - LessAccounting

We love money, we love toys and vacations. But we’ve always believed that if we made something that people love then the money will follow.

Netsetter:
When I read about your company and products I always get the distinct impression that you are driven by passion and not money, would you say that’s accurate? Do you think it’s been a factor in the success of your business?

Allan Branch:
We love money, we love toys and vacations. But we’ve always believed that if we made something that people love then the money will follow. So that’s where we put out focus and energies. When you’re driven by money it’s easy to lose sight of the thing that might make you or your products great. We try very hard to stay focused on our goal, which is making people happy. If we can achieve that, then we’ll be successful.

Netsetter:
You’ve got a background in design while Steve has some serious Rails credentials, do you think that’s the ideal partnership for developing a web app? What do you think the important attributes are in a co-founder?

Allan Branch:
Steve gives a talk about how to build a successful web application. One of the things he stresses is to not do it alone. Digging further he talks a lot about picking a partner(s) with different skills. I think one of the keys to our success is where we are alike an where we are different. Having the same ideology about less and users and work and family are great. Having different perspectives on code and design let us complement each other instead of compete with each other.

Leveraging the power of the little guy - the WeAllHateQuickbooks Site

Netsetter:
I recently saw a quirky little minisite you guys created called WeAllHateQuickbooks that pulls in a Twitter feed on the word “quickbooks”. Your marketing is very much geared towards positioning yourselves as the antidote to the bloated world of accounting software. How did you come up with this clearly successful pitch? And do you feel marketing has played a big role in your success?

Allan Branch:
We always hated Quickbooks and we know that is a very common sentiment. Tracking the word quickbooks on twitter made it very clear that almost everyone also hates quickbooks. We’re very lucky to have such a large competitor. Their size makes it almost impossible for them to write software that is easy to use. Marketing is all about telling a story, but I can’t stress enough that making a product that people talk about is the most important part of marketing. If your story comes from people instead of you it is an exponentially better story.

Netsetter:
Have there been any crises you’ve experienced, with the apps, with the business, with hosting? How did you respond and how did it affect things?

Allan Branch:
There are always problem and difficulties. Sometimes there are good problems: the server can’t handle the load is a very good problem to have, it’s a problem everyone wants. Having a partner you can trust and depend on is how we get through the hard times. Steve keeps me calm, he keeps me pumped up and he inspires me. He’s become my best friend and partnering with him is one of the most fortunate events of my life.

LessEverything's Allan Branch

Netsetter:
If you could go back and do it all again, is there anything you’d do differently? Anything you wish you’d known?

Allan Branch:
We’ve made a lot of mistakes. Mostly they were Steve’s, cause I’m perfect and wonderful. I’m sure he would do a lot of things differently. Mostly around how to spend money (don’t spend money, ever).

Netsetter:
For aspiring developers looking to turn their skills into a business, what advice do you have? Where should they start and what big hurdles should they look out for?

Allan Branch:
“Make something users love in the shortest amount of time without ruining your life.” That’s the one liner from Steve’s talk. I think it’s great advice. All three parts of that are important. Making something users love is the most important single thing you can do. Working hard is the second most important thing. Users + hard work = success. But don’t forget: if you ruin your life, get divorced, miss every soccer game, then no amount of success is worth that, in fact, that is failure.

Thanks Allan!

The Netsetter:
When you took over from founder Tariq Krim last year it was described as a move to take the “company to its next stage of growth”. How has it gone? Do you think every startup gets to a point when the founder steps out of the lead role?

Freddy Mini:
Well, despite a challenging environment, Netvibes managed to not only stick to its business model, but actually grow its revenue consistently, quarter over quarter. I believe every startup is different and has to be different by nature, so I wouldn’t take the risk of giving a general statement as such. In regards to Netvibes, as previously announced, Tariq and I discussed and planned for this evolution.

The Netsetter:
Despite the economic tumult, you’ve stated that Netvibes is on track to hit the September 2009 break-even goal. This is an impressive achievement by any standards. How did you achieve this? Were you prepared at all for the change in financial seasons late last year?

Freddy Mini:
Netvibes determined to set a challenge for itself mid-last year when we rolled out an 18 month plan to achieve profitability in Q4 2009. This means we created this goal for ourselves before and independently of the global financial crisis. While the crisis slashes the marketing budgets and lengthens the decision-making processes of some potential clients, the reality is that we’re truly lucky to not depend on display ad revenue like other startups. With growing inventories and shrinking demand, it’s causing many people to question the ubiquitous display ad model that the industry has come to rely on.

The financial crisis actually helps us in certain ways by forcing companies to reevaluate their marketing mix. Now companies are asking what is the engagement and direct engagement they’re getting for their dollars, not just the number of clicks. Personalization is the ultimate form of engagement and Netvibes is the first and best personalization platform out there. Although we’re known for our consumer personalized startpage, Netvibes.com, which has millions of users in more than 100 countries, our business comes from the powerful personalization platforms and widget marketing services we offer to marketing agencies, brands, publishers and enterprises.

The Netsetter:
As a regular (free) user of Netvibes I wasn’t aware of the branded “Premium Universe” product you had available until only just recently. To see it in use with companies like Alot.com, Le Figaro and Tagged is great and no doubt has played a large role in bringing Netvibes to it current positive financial status. How do you go about balancing the needs of a paying, enterprise part of the business with the everyday users (like me)?

Freddy Mini:
Netvibes free public pages, also called “Universes”, are static and run under our Netvibes domain. Netvibes Premium Universe, also called “personalized microsites” by ad agencies, are publicly personalizable pages where users can customize themes and layouts, add, remove and move widgets–all under our client’s domain. Here we can iframe netvibes to immerse it within our client layout, ads and/or navigation. Netvibes Premium Universe is an instant, turnkey, drag-and-drop publishing solution that requires zero programming. It can be entirely designed and, even better, managed by a marketing or an editorial person, and later handed off to clients–never touching the hands of a programmer or IT person–because it is so easy to maintain. Similar to how iWeb made publishing easy for consumer, our solution shows more and more the potential of Netvibes as a widget based publishing tool to make life easy for interactive marketers. Netvibes Premium Universe comes built-in with all the personalization, social networking and widget content features that has made Netvibes.com such a success.

For large companies that are looking for even more control, Netvibes Enterprise essentially enables them to install our entire platform on a client server, enabling them to manage their own security and level of customization. Our Enterprise product also has features we don’t use on Netvibes.com, like directory authentication and behaviors.

Alot.com - With services powered by Netvibes

The Netsetter:
Was the Premium Universe and Premium Widgets strategy the Netvibes plan all along, or did it evolve over time? And if it wasn’t the original plan, how did you come to it?

Freddy Mini:
They both reflect of our product vision. I don’t believe you can have a product monetization strategy apart from a product development plan.

Freddy Mini, CEO of Netvibes

The Netsetter:
Freddy, you have some impressive startup credentials even before Netvibes, as cofounder of musicMe and Managing Director of CNET Networks Europe. As such, how do you feel the French startup scene compares to the Silicon Valley area we hear so much about in the press? Are there any especially promising French startups you can tell us about?

Freddy Mini:
I was happy and not surprised to read last week that the largest age segment for Twitter user was 45-54. I’ve been working on the Internet world since 1995. For 14 years, I’ve heard with that old and obvious statement: the internet will change everything. And it will. I say “will” because I believe we’re still at the beginning. But once the statement made, we all seem to go back to our routines. My point is: let’s stop thinking that the future of the Web rests entirely on the shoulders youngsters in Silicon Valley. If the Web has taught us anything, it’s that age and location are not important. What matters is motivation and vision. There’s definitely a lot of creativity in France, and I’m very proud of that, but there’s also a lot in other countries as well.

The Netsetter:
Last year Guy Kawasaki launched his AllTop service with the stated purpose of taking RSS to a more mainstream audience. How do you think the AllTop service compares with Netvibes in terms of capturing that audience? Do you think the masses will ever take to RSS or is it always going to stay in the tech/early adopter crowd?

Freddy Mini:
Yes, I think so. But I also believe the chasm in between early adopters who are comfortable with technology and mainstream will be crossed only once the technology itself becomes invisible. There’s a reason why books are still around (and why publishers can charge such a high premium for hardcovers). I see things like the Kindle making RSS more invisible for consumers who are used to picking up a print paper. I foresee 2 axes: intelligence in feature, for example with sophisticated layouts to make the reading closer to a magazine than a 80′s computer listing, and intelligence in content, to get personalized delivery and discovery at my fingertips. And that’s what we’ve done with Netvibes, making RSS look more like a magazine that’s 100% personalized for you. The future is all about services, not the tools or technologies themselves.

The Netsetter:
What’s next for Netvibes? How do you see the company evolving?

Freddy Mini:
Startups, by nature, must have big dreams. I believe the future of the Internet is its Personalization. I want to see an Internet for me, where I can control everything, and where I’m not bombarded with information and ad overload. I believe web 1.0 was feudal, publishers were masters and audiences, slaves. Then web 2.0 brought emancipation to the people. But in this new world, there is no reason for the movement to stop. The next step is for each individual to become the master of their own Web. For that we gonna need some Personalization help. How will consumers personalize and gain control of their Web? How will businesses and publishers form a democratic and mutually beneficial relationship with these new consumers? Netvibes is here to answer these questions.

Thanks so much for your time Freddy!

Netsetter:
You’re a web developer with a good decade of experience, were you responsible for building the BSA service from scratch? Do you still work on the site alone or has the team grown? How’s the workload fared over the last year?

Todd Garland:
Yes, I wrote every line of code and designed every pixel of BSA’s first version. It is far from perfect, but in general it works – people can buy ads and people can sell ads. Over the past months we have been 150% focused on the new version, so there have been very few updates to the current site except taking it out of private beta. With the new version, I’m responsible for the front-end code and design. I have a brilliant developer working on the entire backend and overall infrastructure of the site. So yes, the team has grown a little bit. The workload has been great, there’s always something to do One thing I don’t think many people know is that I had been working another full-time job up until January 1st 2009. Before then, I was running BSA early mornings, nights, and weekends. Right now, we are in the process of hiring a couple more folks to help push BSA and our other projects along.

A screenshot of BuySellAds' upcoming redesign

Netsetter:
What sorts of challenges did you face in building and deploying the service? Did it all go according to plan?

Todd Garland:
Well, I think the biggest challenge is a mental one. When you’re building a site like this (or any startup for that matter) there are good days and there are bad days. Some days I would wake up and think that it was the absolute worst idea ever and that it was never going to work. And, other days I would wake up and think that it was the best thing since sliced bread. Once BSA was “ready” to launch it took me a few weeks before I actually pulled the trigger and launched the site. So there was definitely a mental battle that was a challenge for me. Surprisingly, the actual launch did go according to plan and there have been very few issues with the code, ad serving, etc. since. The only thing that did not go according to plan is how many people signed up and how many ads were actually sold in the first few months. I couldn’t believe it.

Netsetter:
Is the site entirely self-funded? Have you had any business experience prior to launching this business? If you haven’t do you think this has helped or hindered the business’ development?

Todd Garland:
Yes, BSA is 100% self-funded right now. Prior to BSA I was Partner at an interactive agency in Boston called Mindfire Interactive, and most recently I was Lead Designer/SEO Specialist/Front-end Engineer at a hot startup called HubSpot. The best part about my experience at Mindfire is in the sheer number of websites I built over the 3 years that I was there. With HubSpot, since I was there very early, I gained a lot of experience in seeing how a company grows from just a handful of people to over 70 (very quickly, a couple rounds of funding, etc.). My experience at HubSpot also gave me a chance to really improve my front-end coding, application design, and SEO skills since I was able to work on a single application/product vs. just building a bunch of sites like I did at Mindfire.

Netsetter:
The ad market is very competitive and with a global economic downturn, this has been a difficult period to be in this line of work. Yet despite that, BSA seems to be going from strength to strength. What do you attribute your business’ success to?

Todd Garland:
Indeed, there is always news of doom and gloom in the ad industry these days Well, BSA is a little different than most ad networks whose financials are responsible for this gloomy news in the ad industry. Here’s why we continue to grow despite the bad news:

• Our commission is the lowest in the industry, 25%.If it were lower than 25% we would not be able to sustain a real business. I made it as absolutely low as possible when I launched for a few reasons: (a) I didn’t want publishers to raise their rates and therefore render the ads less effective for advertisers. (b) I simply didn’t want to take more of the publishers money – I want them to like BSA and not grimace every time an ad is sold.
• Our inventory is legitimate, quality, and highly targeted.
• We don’t sell what the industry calls “remnant inventory” And publishers have full control over the ads that are sold on their site(s). Ever see one of those ads for losing weight on TechCrunch where the stomach is animated? That’s remnant inventory, 100% un-targeted junk.
• Our ads are priced right.Most ad networks are large companies with tons of staff, and that is why they take a 40%+ commission on ads sold. This also results in inflate CPM rates because they need higher margins. And, they’re relying on targeting and selling to huge national brands.

  It is these huge budgets that are getting cut right now who are no longer buying the overpriced ads, because targeting is really hard and nobody has done it *right* yet.

• Most of these reports do not take into account niche ad networksThey’re simply not big enough to influence the report. In aggregate, however, I think you will start to see a lot of ad revenue flow towards these niche networks like BuySellAds.com.

Netsetter:
Although I have actually come across services with some similarity to BSA – that is that they manage your inventory for you in approximately the same way – I’ve never seen one which has had so much success in a single niche. In the web and design niche it’s positively rare to find a blog or site that doesn’t sell their ads through BSA. Was this a deliberate tactic on your part and how did you go about focusing in on the market?

Todd Garland:
This makes me very happy Yes, it was deliberate. Before starting BSA I was running a couple design related sites – running these sites was a hobby of mine and through my frustration in selling ads on those websites I started BuySellAds.com. Collis, you actually purchased an ad on one of my sites for FlashDen.net one time. Truth be told, I just really like this niche and I frequent many of the sites in our network every day. It was a good fit from the start. When I first launched I took a very organic and personal approach. I knew some owners of other sites and simply contacted them to see if they would let me sell ads on their site. Luckily, I wasn’t the only publisher frustrated by selling ads, and the problem I was solving was widespread in this niche.

Netsetter:
I know you’ve got what promises to be an impressive new version of the site scheduled for release shortly. What else is on the horizon for BSA?

Todd Garland:
Well, I always like to have a few tricks up my sleeve. There is still a huge list of improvements that we’re planning to make to the new version of BSA after it is launched and this will continue to be our top priority. Beyond that, we are going to be introducing some new types of ads (don’t worry, nothing flashy or annoying), and we also have a couple other websites in the works on separate domains that are new-ish ways to help website owners and content producers monetize. I do plan to stay true to my roots and remain focused on the web design and development niche on all projects, but the new version of BSA will make it easier for us to expand into additional verticals when we are ready.



Todd Garland of BuySellAds!

Netsetter:
Have there been any crises you’ve experienced, with the site, with the business, with hosting? How did you respond and how did it affect the site?

Todd Garland:
YES! On Christmas Day 2008 our stats server went down for the first time. Now, this wasn’t a huge deal since we were not actually showing these stats in the app and it doesn’t really impact publisher websites, but it was bad timing. Luckily my family understands that it is important that these servers always be UP and I was able to excuse myself from the festivities for a little bit to fix things.

Netsetter:
If you could go back and do it all again, is there anything you’d do differently? Anything you wish you’d known?

Todd Garland:
Yes, I would have taken the idea more seriously and launched back in early 2007 when I first started playing around with it. Although, this would resulted in me never working at HubSpot. And, I learned a lot of programming, design, and business lessons at HubSpot that’s really helping me out now.

Thanks Todd!!

]]> http://thenetsetter.com/blog/interviews/startup-stories-todd-garland-of-buysellads/feed/ 19 http://thenetsetter.com/blog/interviews/startup-stories-thefwas-rob-ford/ http://thenetsetter.com/blog/interviews/startup-stories-thefwas-rob-ford/#comments Wed, 25 Mar 2009 03:20:28 +0000 Collis Ta'eed http://thenetsetter.com/blog/?p=189 The FWA: Favourite Website Awards is a site founded in the heady days of 2000 with the goal of showcasing brilliant web design on the cutting edge. Now approaching a decade online, the site has become something of an institution in its field and to have one’s work featured there is high praise indeed. Thanks to paid submissions, a popular job board and advertisers to the 80,000 odd daily visitors, the site has not only achieved popular but also financial success.

TheFWA’s founder Rob Ford comes from a background in finance, sales and project management and created the site without external funding. Rob took time out, 9 years on to tell us about his experiences building not only a respected awards site, but a solid business around it.

Netsetter:
As an unfunded venture I thought it’d be great if you could tell us a bit about how the FWA came into existence. Did you plan it to be a business from the start, or did that evolve? How did you fund the site, bandwidth and growth?

Rob Ford:
First of all, thanks for inviting me to do this interview!
Back in 1997 I was trying to establish a web presence, playing with animated gifs and lake applets. I can remember rocking one design that had a neon flashing sign that said “open 24 hours”. I dare to admit it but I even had a virtual creature on the site… it was a tarantula and I suffer with arachnophobia!

Anyway, as I progressed through HTML and eventually on to Flash, I finally started to make some sites for small companies and established my own agency called treecity. In early 2000 I received an email from Yellow Pages in the UK saying I had been nominated for an award in the Yell UK Web Awards and was on the shortlist with the likes of the legendary Deepend.

I got such an amazing buzz from the experience, whilst also noticing the surge in cool Flash sites at that time that I decided to start up Favourite Website Awards as a showcase for creative websites.

There was no intention or even thoughts at that time to turn it in to a business and even nine years later I don’t see it as a business, even though it effectively has to run like one. FWA evolved in to a business after about six years in existence, mainly as I was getting a lot of advertising enquiries and traffic was going crazy. It was a natural progression.

Up until 2006 I funded the site both financially and with my time. I ended up having to give up everything else I was doing to support myself financially as I could see the growth potential. In fact, I didn’t have a choice, it just took me over whether I wanted it to or not. The snowball syndrome.

For years I tried to get sponsored hosting but was always turned down, most often my emails went un-answered. In recent years that all changed and now I have to turn down hosting offers as, for the last number of years, Jared Wray’s company, Tier3, has handled thefwa.com’s massive bandwidth and traffic. The site will receive its 50 millionth visitor within weeks. Thefwa.com does almost 2 million site visits per month, with around 400,000 unique users per month and almost 100 million hits per month on Tier3’s servers.

Netsetter:
9 years is long enough to have seen ups and downs on the internet, what sorts of challenges have you faced in running the FWA over such a long time period?

Rob Ford:
Luckily, being your own boss you can pretty much make up the rules as you go along. Thank heavens I don’t have the structure of a major corporation as the levels of red tape I have personally witnessed is often ludicrous. I’m still trying to figure out why I need to sign a ten page contract to write an article for someone. Note to Collis, thanks for not getting all legal on me for this interview!



TheFWA's most recent site FWAPhoto

The biggest challenges are always the business side of things. Kind of contradicting my above statement. Legal issues, like people trying to steal your content, or any intellectual property issues. Accountancy issues, VAT etc. All those mundane business items we all have to deal with and get right. VAT is a classic issue as it seems that the internet is redefining the rules of the likes of VAT and it’s often difficult to get a definite answer on international trade when handling electronic services etc.

I guess I am a creative entrepreneur. I love to launch new showcases, like FWA Theater and the brand new FWA Photo but I hate the business side of things. Having said that, I always make sure I get the best advice and that my house is kept in order. A clear conscience is what helps me get my 8 hours sleep every night.

In terms of the ups and downs of the internet in the last nine years… I just keep doing what I do best. It’s almost like living in a bubble. Just ignore what is happening around you and keep ploughing forward. Seems to have worked for me.



FWATheater showcasing great motion design

Netsetter:
Being in a similar industry, I’ve seen dozens of competitors try their hand at the awards niche. What do you think has kept them at bay and the FWA at the top of the ladder?

Rob Ford:
Good question! Yes, I have seen many awards come and go over the years. I have even sent a few of them cease and desist notices after they copied our site and/or our content!

What keeps them at bay is that I know how much time I have to put into FWA. It’s a labour of love, 24/7 x 365… literally. I even do site updates on Christmas day. I haven’t had a day off for holidays or ill in nine years. Working with food poisoning and a temperature of 102.7 is how I define dedication! The only time out I have had has been in the last six months when I have been away from my desk a few times to talk to potential investors and acquirers.
What I am saying is that you really do need to put a massive commitment into a project to make it work. Can you imagine working for six years without drawing a wage? Exactly.

The other reason so many have come and gone, tried to compete and failed is because they are not doing anything different. Just look at the likes of Digg and Twitter, simple ideas, never done before.

In summary, if you are going to start up an awards program, make sure you have no social life first, or give it up if you do and then do not emulate something that is already successful, do something different or at least with a twist on it. Competing with established websites without offering a different experience will be very demoralising.

Netsetter:
Has the FWA always charged for submissions? If not, how did you go about introducing the charge to the audience? Was there a backlash?

Rob Ford:
No, it was never my intention to charge people for submissions. In fact, I think in one interview I did many years ago, I said I would never charge anyone to submit a site.

In May 2006 things had to change because I was receiving up to 200 submissions per day and, at that time, I was judging sites entirely by myself. I spent almost every waking hour judging sites and it got to the stage where I couldn’t cope. I was also receiving submissions from sites which had absolutely no chance of winning and they were just wasting my time.

With a very heavy and nervous heart, I took the plunge in May 2006 and started to charge £10 GBP per submission. I was terrified at that time that submissions would dry up but, of course, they didn’t. What happened though was that submissions plummeted to a manageable level immediately. And, to my delight, the quality of submissions, as it is still today, is top class.

Now, three years on we have 30 judges on the SOTD (site of the day) panel and over one hundred industry experts judging SOTY (site of the year).

We now have a two tier submission option. The basic is at £34.50 GBP for a submission for SOTD consideration. Then we have the option2 submission at £69.00 GBP where we judge a site for SOTD consideration whilst also sending the submitter’s site details to a world class distribution list which includes some of the leading publications from around the world, including journalists from the likes of: The New York Times; Chicago Tribune; The Guardian; msnbc; Computer Arts and many more. The option2 submission is what most people opt for these days. I think one of the main reasons we still get so many submissions is because the level of exposure we can offer is huge. FWA is probably one of the top 10 websites in the world for sending traffic to sites.

As for the backlash, yes there were some emails and some forum posts but I expected that. The reality for me was that I “grew up” on a free internet when you could download everything for nothing. As the internet has matured we have all realised that you get what you pay for and that we do actually have to pay for some goods and services. Life is not a free party! Most things can start out for free but eventually are driven towards being paid for by market forces.

Netsetter:
I was surprised to learn that you have a background in finance, sales and project management, how do you think this has helped or hindered your work on the FWA?



TheFWA's Rob Ford

Rob Ford:
My background has been extremely useful and beneficial. Having a strong work ethic and being a very honest person with extremely high ethics, unwavering at all times, has made me and FWA very successful. I am very organised and excellent at managing projects. I am a perfectionist which is often as good as it is bad. If something is not exactly right, it has to be and this can cause stress but any perfectionist will understand what I mean. Being a good salesman always helps as well but my skill at being good at sales is basically simple… just be nice to people and follow up your leads.

Netsetter:
Have there been any crises you’ve experienced, with the site, with the business, with hosting? How did you respond and how did it affect the site?

Rob Ford:
I can’t think of an crises relating to FWA at all. It’s been a smooth ride but very hard work. Turning in to a formal business was a bind, setting up the accounts etc but everyone has to do that. There have been a number of “moments” but they have been incoming bombs rather than outgoing ones. I make sure everything is in order and that every submitted site is treated the same. No favours for anyone at all. Every site is judged on its own merits no matter who made it. Basically, using a tried and tested format and not moving from it for anyone.

Even after nine years, we seem to do record traffic almost every week. So, it’s still an upward curve, even in this recession. Year on year we are growing by 50% in all aspects.

Netsetter:
If you could go back and do it all again, is there anything you’d do differently? Anything you wish you’d known?

Rob Ford:
Yes, I would like to have not wasted my time chasing Macromedia for a sponsorship and since then, Adobe. It’s very draining trying to convince a company that you need and deserve their support. Crazy thing is, I am still doing this right up to today. So, Adobe… I’m over here!

Netsetter:
Recently the FWA went up for sale, do you have any updates? I’ve never had experience selling a large site and I’m sure our readers would be fascinated to hear about the process of finding and negotiating with buyers!

Rob Ford:
Hopefully, having read what I have said so far, you’ll appreciate how I live for FWA and that putting it up for potential acquisition was a very difficult thing to do. The reality is that FWA has grown to be a very big project with huge potential and even though I have an amazing team of judges and volunteers now, a big injection of business acumen and financial clout could see FWA become what it deserves to be.

I’ve also spent my entire thirties without seeing daylight so I would appreciate some sun on my bones. I personally spend too much of my time still doing the mundane jobs relating to FWA instead of pushing through new initiatives.

After putting up a “for sale” sign I received a staggering amount of emails. Many were well wishes and some worried fans but there were also a large number of good approaches from all over the world. I am actually still in discussions so it’s hard for me to go much further here. All I would say is that FWA is in my blood so rest assured if it does get acquired I will remain in a strong advisory role at the minimum as my FWA dream is still in its infancy. I want to make it far bigger and better, with many offshoots, new showcases and exciting developments for years to come.

Thanks Rob!!

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